|
|
Post by guitarandyourpen on Apr 10, 2014 19:19:59 GMT
When MCA in the USA starting putting out the remixed CD's around 1996, I foolishly sold the following original MCA "unremastered" CD's that came out around 1987:
1) A Quick One (Happy Jack)
2) The Who Sell Out
3) Live At Leeds
4) Who's Next
5) Odds and Sods
I am one of the folks that absolutely hates the remixes. It's blasphemy to me that one of the greatest rock bands in history would take their classic albums and alter history for fans with mixes that weren't on the original releases. Some releases are more tolerable for me than others, but albums like The Who Sell Out (with ads put in between the songs that weren't on the original album) and Live At Leeds have been doctored so much that I have a hard time listening to them. Fortunately, I have managed to retain most of the 1987 CD's - especially albums like The Who By Numbers, Who Are You and It's Hard which were really butchered by the remix project.
While it is a secret fantasy of mine that the American record label will one day release those Japanese SHM remastered CD's (glitches corrected, of course), until then, I would like to recover my original 1987 MCA CD's. However, I am having a very, very difficult time finding used copies of the 5 albums above anywhere on the internet. I have checked amazon.com third party vendors, ebay.com, etc., and I just cannot find them anywhere.
Is anyone aware of any other online vendors who sell a lot of used CD's?? It's especially important that the vendor clearly indicate which version of the CD they are selling. I don't want to buy what I think is the 1987 version of Live At Leeds and then receive the 1996 remix in the mail.
Thanks for any input that you might have.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ineedanewname on Apr 11, 2014 0:27:36 GMT
I managed to pick up a few early MCAs and all of the early Polydors from Amazon. For stupidly low prices too, in some cases for pennies.
I'd suggest try going to Amazon.co.uk and using the advanced search option, which unlike the US Amazon site includes the abililty to search by barcode (EAN/UPC). You'll have to type something in the main search box and "go" before the advanced search link appears.
Alternatively, download a free program called ASIN to EAN convertor. It converts Amazon's own uniquely issued ASIN to the actual barcode of the item. As most Amazon sellers tend to list items by barcode, in my experience that "reverse engineering" technique will usually reveal the actual version of the CD the seller has for sale.
If that route fails you could give Secondspin a try, or Gemm and Musicstack, although I find the latter pair can tend to be a bit pricey. Ifoffer is another site you may have some luck with, if you can tolerate their scattergun approach to producing search results. And of course it is always worth keeping an eye on Ebay because you never know what will come along eventually.
I've noticed over the past couple of years quite a decline in the number and variety of used CDs coming up for sale online. It seems not to do with rarity as such, but more because of general interest dropping off as the online world switches to non-physical sources. Offline I can wander around charity shops or used CD dealers and find boxes of early CDs which are now difficult to find online despite just a few years ago being quite common on Ebay etc.
|
|
|
|
Post by whoireland on Apr 11, 2014 3:04:23 GMT
Aren't the Japanese shm CDs the remix/remaster versions too?
|
|
|
|
Post by Ineedanewname on Apr 11, 2014 12:55:59 GMT
I don't know about the others but My Generation has a new mastering of the original mono mix.
|
|
jch432
Loves that CSI tune
Posts: 41 
|
Post by jch432 on Apr 11, 2014 15:23:32 GMT
I would be interested, too, to hear what releases are preferred & why by who-folks, sound-wise ...
For the 'albums' noted in this thread + other Moon era classics, mine would be:
My Generation >> (*) 2CD Deluxe edition (S. Talmy involved)
Happy Jack >> (*) 1CD 'mid-90's Remaster w bonus tracks
Sell-Out >> (so far)1CD 'mid 90's Remaster w bonus tracks
Tommy >> 1CD 'mid 90's Remaster - produced by Pete T (no bonus tracks, btw) = 2CD Deluxe edition (I like both)
Live At Leeds >> (*) original vinyl
Who's Next >> (*) original vinyl
Quadrophenia >> (*) original vinyl
Odds & Sods >> (*) original vinyl
Who By Numbers >> (*) original vinyl
Who Are You >> (*) 1CD 'mid-90's Remaster w bonus tracks
(*) w/o a doubt for me
John
|
|
|
|
Post by guitarandyourpen on Apr 11, 2014 15:48:49 GMT
There is a difference between remastering and remixing: hub.audiogon.com/blog/2013/01/28/remixed-remastered-or-reissued-what-does-it-all-mean/The Japanese SHM CD's were digitally remastered by Jon Astley. They weren't remixed. They utilize the original mixes. They use the mixes from the original LP's instead of the butcher job remixes that MCA used in the mid-90's which permanently altered the Who's catalog. This is why those CD's have become so valuable to Who collectors. The problem is that there are glitches on some of the CD's.....drop outs, strange background noises, etc. Particularly on the Who Are You album. The other problem is that the CD's were very expensive to start out with, and now most of the titles are out of print. They have truly become collector's items. The Who's catalog is a complete mess. They need to hire a group of engineers like the Beatles and Pink Floyd did, grab up all of the original master tapes, and do a thorough, careful remastering of the entire catalog using the original mixes. As Ineedanewname implies, the CD era is coming to a close, and many artists are going through their catalog one last time to get things right for older fans and audiophiles who like having a physical product on hand. BTW - The Who's music in general was poorly recorded, so you're never going to get their music to sound like the Beatles remasters. One of the reasons, in my opinion, had to do with their financial troubles. The Who utilized bottom of the barrel professional recording studios or non-professional recording studios to make their albums. One of the reasons why Who's Next was by far and away their best sounding album is because it was recorded mainly at Olympic Studios. If you want to know why the other albums sound crummy, look at the places they were recorded at. Nowadays you can make quality sounding albums in home studio environments, but back then you simply couldn't. That being said, there is still room for improvement when it comes to The Who's catalog. But they need to hire the right people, and it needs to be a careful, painstaking remastering of the catalog. If it takes 3 years, so be it. |
|
|
|
Post by Ineedanewname on Apr 11, 2014 21:34:34 GMT
I would be interested, too, to hear what releases are preferred & why by who-folks, sound-wise ... John Rated on CDs alone, as I haven't owned a record player since some time around 1997; My Generation It's a toss-up between the original MCA CD and the recent Polydor mono CD. The Polydor seems to come from worse tapes than the MCA, but unfortunately the MCA has the butchered US tracklist. I wouldn't even consider the Shel Talmy remix. I used to own the Japanese mono CD, clearly from great tapes but sadly mastered way too hot for my ears by Jon Astley. I keep meaning to grab the recent SHM, which apparently is a relatively untouched mastering from the original tapes, but never seem to get around to it. A Quick OneNot an album I listen to often, but I much prefer the sound of the original Polydor CD over the 1990s remaster. There was also the problem initially with the latter using the wrong tapes. Sell OutThe clarity of the 90's remix is nice, but I have to go with the original stereo mix on the first Polydor CD. Aside from the issue of the remix, which is of itself good enough, I like to hear the albums in their original context as much as possible, so I find the bonus tracks on this CD sometimes detract from that a little too much. TommyIt's a toss-up between the original Polydor CD and the 90's remix. They each have merits and downsides. Live At LeedsThe original Polydor CD. Six tracks, wham bam thank you m'am. Job done. It also sounds very good. The 90's remix is OK but in comparison seems a little tame to my ears. The Deluxe...let's not even go there! QuadropheniaThe first Polydor CD with the original mix. Who's Next.The first MCA CD.
Odds and Sods
Guess what? The original Polydor! Yet again, I found the mastering detrimental to the 1990s reissue, although at the time it was nice to have the bonus tracks. I've never much bothered going past the 1990s remasters, mainly because I got a bit jaded when I realised I was buying the same albums for the fourth or fifth time. It was also during the 1990s I woke up to the fact that "new" doesn't always equate to "better" in the CD world. I've heard far too many remasters - and I'm not speaking purely of The Who here - which put me off the music they contained because of the manner in which they were mastered, which in turn has almost entirely killed my interest in risking "upgrades". |
|
|
|
Post by brianinatlanta on Apr 12, 2014 12:28:07 GMT
Having a lot of them, I'd suggest going after the Polydor issues instead of the MCA ones. Go to ebay and just make sure they mention the label and the song list (all the reissues will have additional tracks).
Personally I've gone back to listening to the original vinyl whenever possible, even, on Sell Out and Who Are You, ingesting them digitally so as to have copies with the original EQ and no additional compression. It's remarkable how good they can sound.
|
|
|
|
Post by whoireland on Apr 12, 2014 20:09:39 GMT
Interesting discussion. It's spurring me on to catalogue my collection.
Unfortunately these days most of my listening is in car or iPod while walking so I'm not getting the true appreciation of sound quality as I did yrs ago when listening to music while sitting in a room with cd,amp,speakers
On the point of remastering I have found when care is taken,it can greatly enhance things.
Queen's most recent remastering was excellent. As was the beatles stereo and mono sets.
And Zeppelin have been well cared for too. I've found the stones post sticky fingers to be great, but 60s stuff a mixed bag depending on format
|
|
jch432
Loves that CSI tune
Posts: 41
|
Post by jch432 on Apr 12, 2014 20:10:43 GMT
What did you not like particularly like about the 2CD 'My Generation' Deluxe release? [to 'Ineedanewname']
Funny, that was one of my favorites, lol. Of course, different strokes for different folks. I'm curious
Also, I do remember quite a while back who-folks pointing out that the 'mid-90's' remastered Polydor releases were better than the MCA ones; which irked me a bit that there was a difference and we had to settle for the second best this side of the pond. Always wondered, what was/were the difference(s)??
cheers
-John
|
|
|
|
Post by guitarandyourpen on Apr 12, 2014 20:39:49 GMT
Well I managed to snag MCA USA copies of The Who Sell Out, A Quick One and Live At Leeds. I realize they might not sound as good as the Polydor ones from the UK or Germany, but the people who were selling those were from across the continent, and they were asking for quite a bit of money. And then I would have to worry about the stuff arriving at my door step in one piece.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ineedanewname on Apr 13, 2014 14:20:42 GMT
What did you not like particularly like about the 2CD 'My Generation' Deluxe release? [to 'Ineedanewname'] Funny, that was one of my favorites, lol. Of course, different strokes for different folks. I'm curious You'd better take a seat for this because it's one of my pet Whonnoyances! Putting aside the issues of track selection and content, I have real problems with the mix and the mastering. Prior to the stereo remix being released I'd lived with the album as the UK LP (on Virgin), the MCA "Who Sings My Generation CD" and a bootleg CD of the UK LP. All of which of course were the original mono mix. The first thing that struck me on playing the stereo remix was how the guitar seemed a little subdued. It appeared to have been mixed slightly further back, not good when it was such a driving force on the mono mix. I suppose you could write that complaint off to personal taste, but there are also a number of technical anomalies with the remix. Guitar overdubs are missing and one track has a vocal line cut short. Worse still, Shel Talmy decided to add artificial stereo effects. The mix itself is at times quite narrow, near to mono, rather than providing a decent stereo spread. Being limited to 3-track recordings it would have made more sense to go fully one way or the other, rather than sandwiching it somewhere between the two. Speaking of foodstuffs, the icing on the cake is the disc being compressed. And it comes in a digipak. I hate digipaks. For me the single saving grace is the remix of I Can't Explain, which slays the original version. Mixing the tambourine down and the remaining percussion up has given it a real groove missing from the original. Some may say I'm at times splitting hairs with my complaints, but bear in mind we're talking about a "Deluxe" edition of an album which had been out of print in Europe since the late 1960s. This release should have been viewed by the record company as an opporunity to make up for that, to offer something really worthy of the tag of "Deluxe", the word itself being defined as meaning "luxurious or sumptuous; of a superior kind". |
|
|
|
Post by Ineedanewname on Apr 13, 2014 14:30:28 GMT
Well I managed to snag MCA USA copies of The Who Sell Out, A Quick One and Live At Leeds. Did you go down the Amazon route or find something easier? |
|
|
|
Post by petefan09 on Apr 14, 2014 15:55:22 GMT
The original MCA CD of Odds And Sods is very difficult to find. The UK Polydor CDs have been easier to obtain.
Astley's mastering is horrid in general. That said, I do like the remasters of Live At Leeds and Sell out.
The DE of Sell Out is great too. Original mix and German Polydor pressing. Get it!
Otherwise, I have two words: Mobile Fidelity(for Tommy, LAL, Quadrophenia and Who Are You).
|
|
|
|
Post by guitarandyourpen on Apr 14, 2014 16:32:12 GMT
Odds and Sods = Ebay.com (USA) Live at Leeds = Alibris.com (another really good vendor for such things) A Quick One = Amazon.com (USA) The Who Sell Out = Amazon.com (USA)
Ineedanewname = Thanks for the info on the ASIN and EAN/UPC numbers. That really helped.
|
|
|
|
Post by shep78 on Apr 14, 2014 17:13:16 GMT
Im after Odds and sods+sell out original mca versions too,anyone have a link-please?
|
|
|
|
Post by Hammersmith on Apr 15, 2014 14:49:36 GMT
Im after Odds and sods+sell out original mca versions too,anyone have a link-please? Funny, after seeing Petefan90's post yesterday about how hard the original MCA Odds & Sods cd is to find these days, I searched ebay, Discogs, & GEMM for fun, and could not find a single copy available! I'm glad I have mine, just for that reason, but the 2011 Japan shm original mix has become my "go to" version to listen to. |
|
|
|
Post by Ineedanewname on Apr 15, 2014 21:08:41 GMT
Odds and Sods = Ebay.com (USA) Live at Leeds = Alibris.com (another really good vendor for such things) A Quick One = Amazon.com (USA) The Who Sell Out = Amazon.com (USA)
Ineedanewname = Thanks for the info on the ASIN and EAN/UPC numbers. That really helped.
Be sure to let us know what you think of them.  Im after Odds and sods+sell out original mca versions too,anyone have a link-please? Funny, after seeing Petefan90's post yesterday about how hard the original MCA Odds & Sods cd is to find these days, I searched ebay, Discogs, & GEMM for fun, and could not find a single copy available! I did exactly the same and was really surprised to discover the same. A couple of years ago they were a regular on Ebay and easily found on Amazon etc. |
|
|
|
Post by WhoFanatic on Apr 18, 2014 16:40:00 GMT
When MCA in the USA starting putting out the remixed CD's around 1996, I foolishly sold the following original MCA "unremastered" CD's that came out around 1987: 1) A Quick One (Happy Jack) 2) The Who Sell Out 3) Live At Leeds 4) Who's Next 5) Odds and Sods I am one of the folks that absolutely hates the remixes. It's blasphemy to me that one of the greatest rock bands in history would take their classic albums and alter history for fans with mixes that weren't on the original releases. Some releases are more tolerable for me than others, but albums like The Who Sell Out (with ads put in between the songs that weren't on the original album) and Live At Leeds have been doctored so much that I have a hard time listening to them. Fortunately, I have managed to retain most of the 1987 CD's - especially albums like The Who By Numbers, Who Are You and It's Hard which were really butchered by the remix project. While it is a secret fantasy of mine that the American record label will one day release those Japanese SHM remastered CD's (glitches corrected, of course), until then, I would like to recover my original 1987 MCA CD's. However, I am having a very, very difficult time finding used copies of the 5 albums above anywhere on the internet. I have checked amazon.com third party vendors, ebay.com, etc., and I just cannot find them anywhere. Is anyone aware of any other online vendors who sell a lot of used CD's?? It's especially important that the vendor clearly indicate which version of the CD they are selling. I don't want to buy what I think is the 1987 version of Live At Leeds and then receive the 1996 remix in the mail. Thanks for any input that you might have. I did the same thing....regret it now, big time! |
|
|
|
Post by Ineedanewname on Apr 18, 2014 21:39:00 GMT
When MCA in the USA starting putting out the remixed CD's around 1996, I foolishly sold the following original MCA "unremastered" CD's that came out around 1987: I did the same thing....regret it now, big time! Same here, but at least when I realised my mistake the older CDs were still freely available on the used market. Only A Quick One took a few months to track down. |
|
|
|
Post by petefan09 on Apr 22, 2014 11:04:48 GMT
I actually managed to track down an original Odds And Sods for only $15! I rule!
|
|
larry
Loves that CSI tune
Posts: 98
|
Post by larry on Apr 24, 2014 13:18:21 GMT
I did the same thing....regret it now, big time! Same here, but at least when I realised my mistake the older CDs were still freely available on the used market. Only A Quick One took a few months to track down. I kept all of mine. Thank goodness. I'll play the expanded Live At Leeds, but never the so-called deluxe edition of that album. What a stinker. |
|
|
|
Post by petefan09 on Apr 24, 2014 19:23:55 GMT
Some of those original MCA cds are still in print in Canada(Who's Next and Meaty Beaty Big & Bouncy). Here's a link: www.amazon.caAlso managed to snag a West German Meaty Beaty Big & Bouncy(which I never knew existed--it's still in print in Canada). |
|
|
|
Post by Ineedanewname on Apr 25, 2014 2:28:15 GMT
Also managed to snag a West German Meaty Beaty Big & Bouncy(which I never knew existed--it's still in print in Canada). I'm guessing that must've been pressed in a very small quantity as I've never seen one either, only ever Canadian or Japanese. Even back in the 1990s when London used to have a number of megastores for Virgin, Tower, HMV etc etc it was always the Canadian pressing they stocked. |
|
|
|
Post by petefan09 on May 2, 2014 15:09:40 GMT
Can someone give me a track listing for the Japan SHM CD of Odds & Sods? Can't find one online.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ineedanewname on May 2, 2014 15:29:37 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by guitarandyourpen on May 29, 2014 17:53:55 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Ineedanewname on May 29, 2014 20:37:24 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by petefan09 on May 30, 2014 13:50:41 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by teessidetone on Jun 13, 2014 21:56:07 GMT
I dont know about all these re mixes and quality differences, and glitches etc on the who catalogue, all i do have a gripe with is how poorly the drums were recorded or sounded on alot of the albums, especialy early ones, (except my generation), moon sometimes sounds like he is playing on tin cans, or something very muffled, for a drummer that was so good, its a shame his studio work on so many albums is poorly recorded or sounds diminished, i cant speak for the other instruments as its the drums i prefer.
|
|
