Sweeps
Loves that CSI tune
Posts: 128
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Post by Sweeps on Nov 2, 2013 13:00:30 GMT
Part of Entwistle's distinct bass sound came from the fact that (apparently) he played with the amp turned to full treble. However, does anyone know if he had bass turned to 0 or had that turned to full as well. And also, what about the tone dial on the actual bass (i.e Frankstein) Would that have been turned to full to produce a trebly sound or turned off?
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Post by modo on Nov 2, 2013 15:52:11 GMT
Well He certainly had a trebly sound live between 66-70 but it sounded "Big"(Listen to "sodding about")but after the Tommy tour he went for a more bassy sound for the "Whos next" tour/album and an even bassier sound for the qudrophenia album/tour.I think he acheived this by turning down the tone control on the guitar?He had a more "twangy" trebly sound again(But with a nice bottom end too) when he switched to using the Alembic basses.I think the trebliest he has ever sounded was the later years 2000-2002 but it was a very thin trebly sound with not a lot of bottom end to it(At least that's how it came across on any recordings from that period!)I don't know how he set his tone controls but I don't think he would have turned the bass all the way down no way as there would be "No bottom end" and thus no bass sound!
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Post by whoireland on Nov 2, 2013 16:29:15 GMT
Be careful when determining his sound on particular tours based on certain recordings.
If you were at shows and then listened to (even official) recordings of that show, the sound can be radically different
Recordings can be misleading
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Sweeps
Loves that CSI tune
Posts: 128
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Post by Sweeps on Nov 2, 2013 17:33:33 GMT
Sounds like he experimented with quite a lot of different tones. Personally, I'm after capturing the tone he was going for during the LAL/Isle Of Wight era. On the bass masterclass and Thunderfingers DVD he said he went for a more treble tone to "cut through" as I think if he went for the more traditional tone that bassists use then Pete's guitar/ keith's drums would have probably drowned him out.
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Post by garethox on Nov 2, 2013 22:00:00 GMT
To be honest I think the 'full treble' is a little bit of mythology on John's part - unless of course the frequency settings on the old amps were different than later models. Full volume is almost a certainty, which of course gave him the distorted crunchy sound during the LAL period. There is a lot of treble in there though; but the real secret is John himself - the way he attacks the strings using picks, different fingering techniques and the use of open strings and triplets in his playing. The best tip is to watch his right hand technique - his left hand is fascinating to watch, but the right hand is better!
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Sweeps
Loves that CSI tune
Posts: 128
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Post by Sweeps on Nov 2, 2013 22:27:08 GMT
On this video that was linked to the other thread there is a brief close up of his right hand. I can't explain it but it's as if he's slapping the strings (not in the traditional slapping style though) and he seems to be using all four fingers to play quick. Most bass players generally only use two fingers and he was playing with all four at a time when basses were generally still being made with tug bars in order to play the strings with the thumb. (you can see it on his bass in this video.) Just ridiculously ahead of his time.
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Post by boristhearachnid on Nov 3, 2013 3:02:26 GMT
I remember in one interview John saying that studio engineers teewed down the treble that he was putting into the board because they thought it wasn't meant to be there...
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Post by garethox on Nov 3, 2013 10:08:39 GMT
I remember in one interview John saying that studio engineers teewed down the treble that he was putting into the board because they thought it wasn't meant to be there... Yeah... he had to really battle to try to change the view of the 'old guard' producers/engineers - the bass was just supposed to be a dull rumble in the background till John came along. It may look like he uses all four fingers but he doesn't. Steve Harris from Iron Maiden is the same - it appears he uses more than two fingers but he isn't. Contrary to popular belief John had a very light touch, he needed to because of the extremely low action he had on his strings. It is a sort of 'tap/pluck' he uses to give a more percussive sound - very clever and as you rightly say, way ahead of his time. |
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Sweeps
Loves that CSI tune
Posts: 128
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Post by Sweeps on Nov 3, 2013 10:47:40 GMT
It may look like he uses all four fingers but he doesn't. Steve Harris from Iron Maiden is the same - it appears he uses more than two fingers but he isn't. I'm not doubting that but in that clip I posted above, it's clear that all four of his fingers are moving. So would he have used the first two for plucking and then the second two to mute the other strings or something? |
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Post by garethox on Nov 3, 2013 11:51:31 GMT
It may look like he uses all four fingers but he doesn't. Steve Harris from Iron Maiden is the same - it appears he uses more than two fingers but he isn't. I'm not doubting that but in that clip I posted above, it's clear that all four of his fingers are moving. So would he have used the first two for plucking and then the second two to mute the other strings or something? No, it is just the way his remaining fingers move when he plays with the two fingers. If you watch from 08.00 to 16.00 seconds on the 5.15 bass solo it is easier to see. His ring finger and little finger stick out further and are not hitting the strings. If you check out 2.00 to 2.13 on the isolated bass form WGFA you can see he uses the back part of his hand to slap the strings on the snare beat. This is something which harks back to the very early days when John used to do that to enhance the drummers sound. With no mics on the kit the snare sound got lost so he slapped the strings to help the beat along! |
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Post by garethox on Nov 3, 2013 12:03:36 GMT
Below is a reason to just give up bass and take up knitting!!! Great example of John's prowess, sound and technique and in my opinion a better solo than the RAH.
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Post by modo on Nov 3, 2013 13:00:12 GMT
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Sweeps
Loves that CSI tune
Posts: 128
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Post by Sweeps on Nov 7, 2013 0:04:28 GMT
So many guitar players are against the "full treble for bass" tone. It's the only to get properly heard IMO.
Harder to play with a treble sound than a bassier one as well.
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Sweeps
Loves that CSI tune
Posts: 128
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Post by Sweeps on Jul 18, 2014 10:40:24 GMT
Below is a reason to just give up bass and take up knitting!!! Great example of John's prowess, sound and technique and in my opinion a better solo than the RAH. Brilliant video. "Can you explain your two handed tapping?" "TWO handed tapping?" the bass sounds exactly like on the Hot Licks video. I guess that was just a particular phase of tone he was going through at the time. |
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Post by feniowl on Jul 19, 2014 9:24:48 GMT
This is Coley by the way. Had to change the username after the move to proboards. John would often split the bass signal and use to separate inputs/tracks. when recording and playing live. One would be complete treble and the other was the bottom end which enabled him to control either aspect of the sound to be adjusted independently without affecting the tone of the other.
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Sweeps
Loves that CSI tune
Posts: 128
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Post by Sweeps on Jul 20, 2014 18:10:47 GMT
Shame he seemed to throw the concept of low end out of the window during the 90s. Was listening to some tracks off Left For Live the other day and as much as I regret to say it, his tone leaves a lot to be desired. he seemed to be a bit more reserved tone wise when it came to playing with the who during the late 90s but with his own band his tone was just soaked in chorus in distortion. And it's a real shame as well because playing wise he was at his best ever during this time.
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Sweeps
Loves that CSI tune
Posts: 128
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Post by Sweeps on Feb 13, 2015 0:18:19 GMT
one of his best bass tones in this perioid
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Post by brianinatlanta on Feb 13, 2015 13:31:54 GMT
Having heard him quite a few times in his last decade, his bass sound seemed to get more and more trebly. The effect was like the strings were being scraped instead of plucked. A really nasty, brutal sound. Of course, John was nearly deaf during that time and perhaps he couldn't hear the treble part anymore. That is the first part to go.
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Post by jimana13 on Feb 13, 2015 13:43:48 GMT
his tone was horrendous after after late 1980s... terrible...
and it happened quite fast, due to his hearing, i would think
up 1982 it was still amazing with Who..
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Sweeps
Loves that CSI tune
Posts: 128
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Post by Sweeps on Feb 13, 2015 16:20:39 GMT
Was 1985 in Live Aid the last time he played the Alembic Spyder ? It was still good at that point and also with The Best in 1990 when he does a solo it was good. (although really trebly) I don't think treble was the problem really but with the JEB in the late 1990s in particular some of that stuff his bass tone is indescribable. I think he was using tones of chorus and/or flanger (i.e concerts like Itchyoo Park on dvd and Woodstock '99) whenever he does one of his slides it sounds like a computer from a Sean Connery era Bond film! !
But he was really "clanky" in the mid-60s. I think he used a pic more (who knows) and he went bassy around IOW and LAL and then that Voorburg concert in 73 his bass sounds like an articulated truck guitar.
Don't know how they did Trick Of The Light with two basses though! What was Pete doing ?
also : just discovered recently he was into Fender Jazz basses before he got into the precision basses more around 1967. Always thought he was a precision man to the core.
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