Dragon Nostalgia
Loves that CSI tune
Syd's Floydian Whophoria In The Teenage Wasteland
Posts: 69
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Post by Dragon Nostalgia on Jun 8, 2009 14:14:09 GMT
He was a spoiled 'manchild'. He was a bad husband and father to his daughter. Would you like to be in a hotel room next door to him? Or his neighbour? He deserved a slap . Anyway the lights went out on all that rock n roll bad behaviour ages ago. Its boring. Who are we to say how Keith lived his life was wrong or immoral. He wasn’t a saint…but not everyone wants their idols/heros to be saints. We all only live once….Keith would of only had one regret…not seeing his daughter grow up. And for all the stories you can tell me about what a horrible person he was I can give you one back about how kind and how generous he was. Keith was afraid of life being boring. At least he lived! (albeit for 32 years) Hey, thanx for the support freind!! ;D Although I always got the impression( & I've done a fair amount of research) that he was somewhat non-supportive of family anything, more of a life of chaos, partying, antics, & rock n' roll, than any other lifestyle,you took a few more statements out of my mouth for me. His fear of being boring, we only live once,his generousness,etc. He loved to be the comedian amoung ppl & all his life he just wanted to be loved....& I don't think he ever got it, aside from fans & freinds.
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Post by moonlegend on Jun 8, 2009 15:52:24 GMT
Who are we to say how Keith lived his life was wrong or immoral. He wasn’t a saint…but not everyone wants their idols/heros to be saints. We all only live once….Keith would of only had one regret…not seeing his daughter grow up. And for all the stories you can tell me about what a horrible person he was I can give you one back about how kind and how generous he was. Keith was afraid of life being boring. At least he lived! (albeit for 32 years) Hey, thanx for the support freind!! ;D Although I always got the impression( & I've done a fair amount of research) that he was somewhat non-supportive of family anything, more of a life of chaos, partying, antics, & rock n' roll, than any other lifestyle,you took a few more statements out of my mouth for me. His fear of being boring, we only live once,his generousness,etc. He loved to be the comedian amoung ppl & all his life he just wanted to be loved....& I don't think he ever got it, aside from fans & freinds. Hello felllow Moon obsessive! No worries Dragon Nostalgia. It just really annoys me when people label keith an 'immature jackass'. And I think you are partly right about Keith wanting to be loved. But I also think that he was genuinely loved by lots people in his life and he knew that too….but wasn’t able to accept that people really did love him. Something in him just couldn’t accept that..like he was frightented of being accepted
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Dragon Nostalgia
Loves that CSI tune
Syd's Floydian Whophoria In The Teenage Wasteland
Posts: 69
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Post by Dragon Nostalgia on Jun 8, 2009 17:17:22 GMT
Yeah, it REALLY burns my @$$ when ppl judge & stereotype, Im not only an avid fan of The Who, but also a hardcore Syd Barrett fan (Pink Floyd also, just for the record), so I've seen it at its worst!! I feel like I know bullsh*t when I see it, so I've resorted to forming my own hypothesis throuh things I know for sure is fact, & search for contradictions backed up by facts. I know for sure his bandmates & other freinds really loved him. What you're saying makes sense, sure makes me wonder why he didn't want to accept it, how much you want to bet his childhood/teenhood wasn't as typical (althogh nearly as mischeivious & hyperactive)as has been claimed & accepted?
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Post by moonlegend on Jun 9, 2009 9:22:33 GMT
Yeah, it REALLY burns my @$$ when ppl judge & stereotype, Im not only an avid fan of The Who, but also a hardcore Syd Barrett fan (Pink Floyd also, just for the record), so I've seen it at its worst!! I feel like I know bullsh*t when I see it, so I've resorted to forming my own hypothesis throuh things I know for sure is fact, & search for contradictions backed up by facts. I know for sure his bandmates & other freinds really loved him. What you're saying makes sense, sure makes me wonder why he didn't want to accept it, how much you want to bet his childhood/teenhood wasn't as typical (althogh nearly as mischeivious & hyperactive)as has been claimed & accepted? If im even remotly correct which im probably not….I don’t think we'll ever know why he couldn’t accept it. There may well be indicators and incidents in his childhood which formed his character. Or it was purely that he developed a form of ADHD/szicophrenia/split personality disorder or all of these! And if he did have one or all of these then the drugs and booze wouldn’t of helped. But this doesn’t diminish him one little bit in my eyes :-)He will always be a total legend to me….even when im grey and old!!
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Dragon Nostalgia
Loves that CSI tune
Syd's Floydian Whophoria In The Teenage Wasteland
Posts: 69
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Post by Dragon Nostalgia on Jun 9, 2009 9:55:19 GMT
IMHO he had either ADHD or a personality disorder, more than likely, along with potential underlying problems in his distant past. The booze, black beauties, & numerous other drugs DEFINATELY were the last thing he needed. I also wouldn't have Keith any other way!! ;D
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Post by slipkid54 on Jun 9, 2009 10:56:46 GMT
I also wouldn't have Keith any other way!! ;D So your okay with a tragic death at the age of 32? Rather than selfishly wanting to have a "rock & roll hero/idol" to fawn over, I'd rather have seen him on tour over the last 20 or so years. The movie will never get made. Wait... let me put it this another way. IF the movie ever gets made, 97% of us will wish it hadn't. Someone asked earlier how someone knew Lennon was, well, not a nice person. They hide that kind of information in things called... books. Any of you twittering facebooker types remember them?
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Post by WhoFanatic on Jun 9, 2009 11:20:47 GMT
I also wouldn't have Keith any other way!! ;D So your okay with a tragic death at the age of 32? Rather than selfishly wanting to have a "rock & roll hero/idol" to fawn over, I'd rather have seen him on tour over the last 20 or so years. The movie will never get made. Wait... let me put it this another way. IF the movie ever gets made, 97% of us will wish it hadn't. Someone asked earlier how someone knew Lennon was, well, not a nice person. They hide that kind of information in things called... books. Any of you twittering facebooker types remember them? *clap* *clap* *clap*
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Post by moonlegend on Jun 9, 2009 15:30:43 GMT
I also wouldn't have Keith any other way!! ;D So your okay with a tragic death at the age of 32? Rather than selfishly wanting to have a "rock & roll hero/idol" to fawn over, I'd rather have seen him on tour over the last 20 or so years. The movie will never get made. Wait... let me put it this another way. IF the movie ever gets made, 97% of us will wish it hadn't. Someone asked earlier how someone knew Lennon was, well, not a nice person. They hide that kind of information in things called... books. Any of you twittering facebooker types remember them? What a ridiculas question…of course we'd like him to be around now, who bloody wouldn’t. But hes not, and that cant be changed. He lived life in the fast lane….and he LIVED more than most of us. The movie will get made at some point, its bound to. But I agree that most of us will not like it.
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Post by WhoFanatic on Jun 9, 2009 18:36:45 GMT
I find it curious you say he *lived* more than most of us...by this you allude to his vast consumption of drugs, booze, women, etc?
I find it hilarious and sad that so many have used rock stars and celebrities as a proxy to indulge in behaviors/substances they themselves would never have the guts (or desires) to...let them destroy their lives and themselves while we get a vicarious thrill out of it, eh?
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Dragon Nostalgia
Loves that CSI tune
Syd's Floydian Whophoria In The Teenage Wasteland
Posts: 69
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Post by Dragon Nostalgia on Jun 9, 2009 21:11:29 GMT
I also wouldn't have Keith any other way!! ;D So your okay with a tragic death at the age of 32? Rather than selfishly wanting to have a "rock & roll hero/idol" to fawn over, I'd rather have seen him on tour over the last 20 or so years. The movie will never get made. Wait... let me put it this another way. IF the movie ever gets made, 97% of us will wish it hadn't. Someone asked earlier how someone knew Lennon was, well, not a nice person. They hide that kind of information in things called... books. Any of you twittering facebooker types remember them? That is a stupid question, you pathetic half-troll, of course it'd be awesome if he were still around & touring, but sh*t happens & we ALL make mistakes. Perfect human beings are nonexistant. You'd have better luck teaching a monkey how to use a calculator. Im content with the film not getting made by now, because Roger can't find anyone who will write the f**king script correctly. As we all know too well, you don't p*ss off the Daltrey man. Oh, & real original, downgrading my intelligence by making a snide remark implying I get my info from social networking sites & implying Im musically uneducated because I don't plaster my eyes to the pages of a biography. I gather as much relaible info as I can from reputable sources & form my own hypothesis from there. I've had too many problems with bullsh*t in allegedly completely reliable sources. Ppl would be fawning over him, dead or alive, since he is the greatest drummer dead or alive, that was a complete & utter f*ckwit comment. That is actually a matter of opinion, (greatest drummer)but you evidently are incapable of comprehending that.
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Dragon Nostalgia
Loves that CSI tune
Syd's Floydian Whophoria In The Teenage Wasteland
Posts: 69
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Post by Dragon Nostalgia on Jun 9, 2009 21:26:29 GMT
I find it curious you say he *lived* more than most of us...by this you allude to his vast consumption of drugs, booze, women, etc? I find it hilarious and sad that so many have used rock stars and celebrities as a proxy to indulge in behaviors/substances they themselves would never have the guts (or desires) to...let them destroy their lives and themselves while we get a vicarious thrill out of it, eh? LOL, you half-trolls just don't know when to quit, do you? I take it you wish Keith was a boring, emotionless, mildly talented, moderately passionate, musical elitist? So he'd be the David Gilmour of the drums rather than the Jimi Hendrix of the drums? You're patting yourself on the back for not "ending up like that", sure makes me wonder what you did in the past that your attempting to make up for, by bullying the fans of a man who made mistakes, & because you are too narrow minded to understand the eccentric. Attempting make something positive of yourself by demonizing another person for their faults as a fellow human is not only ignorant & stereotypical, but its also arrogant & immature. I get a thrill out of his presona,talent, & antics not his mistakes & misadventures. I have the guts to pull a few Keith moves here & there, but obviously not the ones involving his mistakes & misadventures. Yeah, & I bet you also think all Syd Barrett is, is a psychopathic acid casualty........Pathetic
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Post by Ineedanewname on Jun 9, 2009 21:56:26 GMT
That is a stupid question, you pathetic half-troll, of course it'd be awesome if he were still around & touring, but sh*t happens & we ALL make mistakes. Please, don't call someone a "pathetic half-troll" simply because they disagree with you. I'm sure a number of people here would consider the rather beligerent nature exhibited in a couple of your recent posts to be trolling, but I don't think you would be too happy being labelled a "pathetic half-troll", would you?. Disagree with other members all you want, but try and do so without resorting to emotive personal insults, thanks.
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Dragon Nostalgia
Loves that CSI tune
Syd's Floydian Whophoria In The Teenage Wasteland
Posts: 69
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Post by Dragon Nostalgia on Jun 9, 2009 22:17:03 GMT
My apologies. I respect ppl's opinions, Im a firm believer in that, but those 2 post appeared to be crossing over the fine line of healthy debate & dipping into the well of trolling.
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Post by slipkid54 on Jun 9, 2009 23:49:15 GMT
Dragon.... if you re-read the "book" remark you'll see it's directed to the population in general... not to you personally. And ... Tho I won't apologize for the opening question, I am sorry it upset you.
I guess your post hit a nerve for me, too. Questioning hero worship on fan site (of which I am a member!) is an uphill battle. WhoFanatic seems to be on the same page as me and clairified my point quite well.
Yes... everyone makes mistakes. It's just a matter of degree. My mistakes may have cost me a few bucks here and there, and my mistakes might have hurt the feelings of people I care for, but I'm still here to enjoy life. sidebar: It always drove me crazy when they brought in the worst kind of former drug abusers to preach to kids about not doing drugs. I'd rather them hear from someone who was smart enough never to go there in the first place.
"""I bet you also think all Syd Barrett is, is a psychopathic acid casualty""" Well, yes I do. But I do admit I have not read up on Floyd history. It's likely that a true mental illness was part of the problem.
To conclude (because the hockey game starts soon), phrases like he IS the best drummer (no, maybe he WAS the best drummer), and any suggestion that Keith Moon "outlived" me, in whatever definition, hits a sour note with me.
Dragon.. I don't know your age but I hope you live long enough and gather happiness to the point you realize that you have done a lot better with the life given you than Keith Moon did with his.
peace.
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Post by vegasvampire on Jun 10, 2009 1:51:39 GMT
Wow I was under the impression that Keith lived HIS life HIS way, which is pretty much the way we are all entitled to live OUR lives since no one else can live it for us.....we can't say anything about how he did or didn't live his life (or whether or not he made mistakes since we all make them) since it really wasn't any of our business....all we CAN say is we are glad he walked this earth and gave us so much in the short time he was alive and we should all appreciate this fact.
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Post by vegasvampire on Jun 10, 2009 2:04:04 GMT
I find it curious you say he *lived* more than most of us...by this you allude to his vast consumption of drugs, booze, women, etc? I find it hilarious and sad that so many have used rock stars and celebrities as a proxy to indulge in behaviors/substances they themselves would never have the guts (or desires) to...let them destroy their lives and themselves while we get a vicarious thrill out of it, eh? LOL, you half-trolls just don't know when to quit, do you? I take it you wish Keith was a boring, emotionless, mildly talented, moderately passionate, musical elitist? So he'd be the David Gilmour of the drums rather than the Jimi Hendrix of the drums? You're patting yourself on the back for not "ending up like that", sure makes me wonder what you did in the past that your attempting to make up for, by bullying the fans of a man who made mistakes, & because you are too narrow minded to understand the eccentric. Attempting make something positive of yourself by demonizing another person for their faults as a fellow human is not only ignorant & stereotypical, but its also arrogant & immature. I get a thrill out of his presona,talent, & antics not his mistakes & misadventures. I have the guts to pull a few Keith moves here & there, but obviously not the ones involving his mistakes & misadventures. Yeah, & I bet you also think all Syd Barrett is, is a psychopathic acid casualty........Pathetic Back in the 60's and early 70's (the days of the dinosaurs) I won lotsa money drinking ppl under the bar with tequilla and I did just about every drug that came along but I'm not burned out (too much tho I do hear voices occasionally in my head and the pretty colors still entice me) if anything I have mellowed out a lot in the past 35 years. So I really don't have any room to critisize any one else...especially Keith...for living the way they did. Unless we have walked a mile in someone else's shoes no matter who it is, we should keep our judgements and criticisms to ourselves :-)
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Post by vegasvampire on Jun 10, 2009 2:07:28 GMT
oh and P. S. I resent being called a half-troll I'm whole troll and dammed proud of it too!! so...:-)~pfft to you, Dragon!!
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Dragon Nostalgia
Loves that CSI tune
Syd's Floydian Whophoria In The Teenage Wasteland
Posts: 69
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Post by Dragon Nostalgia on Jun 10, 2009 4:26:56 GMT
Dragon.... if you re-read the "book" remark you'll see it's directed to the population in general... not to you personally. And ... Tho I won't apologize for the opening question, I am sorry it upset you. I guess your post hit a nerve for me, too. Questioning hero worship on fan site (of which I am a member!) is an uphill battle. WhoFanatic seems to be on the same page as me and clairified my point quite well. Yes... everyone makes mistakes. It's just a matter of degree. My mistakes may have cost me a few bucks here and there, and my mistakes might have hurt the feelings of people I care for, but I'm still here to enjoy life. sidebar: It always drove me crazy when they brought in the worst kind of former drug abusers to preach to kids about not doing drugs. I'd rather them hear from someone who was smart enough never to go there in the first place. """I bet you also think all Syd Barrett is, is a psychopathic acid casualty""" Well, yes I do. But I do admit I have not read up on Floyd history. It's likely that a true mental illness was part of the problem. To conclude (because the hockey game starts soon), phrases like he IS the best drummer (no, maybe he WAS the best drummer), and any suggestion that Keith Moon "outlived" me, in whatever definition, hits a sour note with me. Dragon.. I don't know your age but I hope you live long enough and gather happiness to the point you realize that you have done a lot better with the life given you than Keith Moon did with his. peace. Hey, no prob!! Glad to see that you're willing to put it behind us. I don't think Keith outlived anyone, unless they have talent, know it, but waste it doing nothing or throwing it away for a senseless reason. I never assumed you did that because I don't know you. I would only hold Keith completely responsible if he, for example, overdosed, survived, then overdosed & died ( like he didn't learn the first time). I hate how ppl always assume he was the only guilty one, I mean, who are we to assume any innocent victims of his drunken rages had instigated at times, & are hiding it, or didn't confront his problems properly. There is a difference between ranting at him & patiently attempting to get through to him. As a matter of fact, he, on his own, planned on to sobering up, remember? I know the rehab couldn't help, because sugnificantly less was known about addiction at the time, however, saying he was unsalvagable probably didn't help his emotional state at all. Im not content with him dying at 32, but Im not in control of his fate, I prefer to think it was simply his time, & that it is not our place to make an anti-drug/alcohol poster child out of him. Im 20 years of age, & I haven't made any life altering mistakes......yet. I've screwed up, though. Fortunately, when it comes to Keith's mistakes & misadventures, it won't occur with me, at least I hope not. As for his antics?, Im all for it. Syd Barrett? It may have been mental illness, but IMHO, it was more consistant with less severe mental problems, stress pressure,& commercialism. The acid was merely the catalyst for his psychosis. Musically, I recommend Piper At The Gates Of Dawn, to begin with, unless you've already thoroughly listened to it.
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Dragon Nostalgia
Loves that CSI tune
Syd's Floydian Whophoria In The Teenage Wasteland
Posts: 69
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Post by Dragon Nostalgia on Jun 10, 2009 4:37:04 GMT
Wow I was under the impression that Keith lived HIS life HIS way, which is pretty much the way we are all entitled to live OUR lives since no one else can live it for us.....we can't say anything about how he did or didn't live his life (or whether or not he made mistakes since we all make them) since it really wasn't any of our business....all we CAN say is we are glad he walked this earth and gave us so much in the short time he was alive and we should all appreciate this fact. ;DGreat posts! You took the words out of my mouth & placed it in a nutshell for me, LOL. Just for the record, I don't hold your little story against you, I've screwed up before, although nothing life altering yet. Oh, BTW, I never labled you a half-troll, I was talking about SlipKid & TheWhoFanatic. I distictly don't remember calling you a half-troll.
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Post by moonlegend on Jun 10, 2009 11:13:19 GMT
I find it curious you say he *lived* more than most of us...by this you allude to his vast consumption of drugs, booze, women, etc? quote] No..by that I allude to him being probably the most talented drummer ever..being in the greatest rock band of all time..performing in some of the most awesome gigs the world has ever seen..being funnier than the whole of the monty python crew put together!
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Post by WhoFanatic on Jun 10, 2009 14:38:37 GMT
I find it curious you say he *lived* more than most of us...by this you allude to his vast consumption of drugs, booze, women, etc? I find it hilarious and sad that so many have used rock stars and celebrities as a proxy to indulge in behaviors/substances they themselves would never have the guts (or desires) to...let them destroy their lives and themselves while we get a vicarious thrill out of it, eh? LOL, you half-trolls just don't know when to quit, do you? I take it you wish Keith was a boring, emotionless, mildly talented, moderately passionate, musical elitist? So he'd be the David Gilmour of the drums rather than the Jimi Hendrix of the drums? You're patting yourself on the back for not "ending up like that", sure makes me wonder what you did in the past that your attempting to make up for, by bullying the fans of a man who made mistakes, & because you are too narrow minded to understand the eccentric. Attempting make something positive of yourself by demonizing another person for their faults as a fellow human is not only ignorant & stereotypical, but its also arrogant & immature. I get a thrill out of his presona,talent, & antics not his mistakes & misadventures. I have the guts to pull a few Keith moves here & there, but obviously not the ones involving his mistakes & misadventures. Yeah, & I bet you also think all Syd Barrett is, is a psychopathic acid casualty........Pathetic I like how you barely ever post here yet call us regulars trolls...nice... I don't have any problem with how Keith lived...it was his choice and he paid the price (as did his family and friends)...to each his own... I thoroughly enjoy his drumming, his personality within the Who, his image with The Who, etc. Sorry to hear you value antics over musicianship...you must think Gilmour, Clapton, McCartney, Windood, etc to be talentless hacks since they just get up there and play, eh? Not "compensating" for anything by "bashing" Keith for his errors and missteps...but the blind adulation and acceptance of all things Keith gets old. I can tell, as you said, you probably indulged in some Keith-like behavior (as you claimed)...it comes through loud and clear!
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Post by WhoFanatic on Jun 10, 2009 14:39:27 GMT
That is a stupid question, you pathetic half-troll, of course it'd be awesome if he were still around & touring, but sh*t happens & we ALL make mistakes. Please, don't call someone a "pathetic half-troll" simply because they disagree with you. I'm sure a number of people here would consider the rather beligerent nature exhibited in a couple of your recent posts to be trolling, but I don't think you would be too happy being labelled a "pathetic half-troll", would you?. Disagree with other members all you want, but try and do so without resorting to emotive personal insults, thanks. I love how 40 posts vs some of us who've been here years makes *us* the trolls...
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Post by WhoFanatic on Jun 10, 2009 14:40:59 GMT
My apologies. I respect ppl's opinions, Im a firm believer in that, Clearly not! but those 2 post appeared to be crossing over the fine line of healthy debate & dipping into the well of trolling. "crossed into the fine line into trolling"...because *you* didn't agree with them. Some "firm belief" in other people's opinions!
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Post by WhoFanatic on Jun 10, 2009 14:45:25 GMT
I find it curious you say he *lived* more than most of us...by this you allude to his vast consumption of drugs, booze, women, etc? quote] No..by that I allude to him being probably the most talented drummer ever..being in the greatest rock band of all time..performing in some of the most awesome gigs the world has ever seen..being funnier than the whole of the monty python crew put together! Well *that* I can agree with! Thanks for clarifying... I do take issue to the fact that Dragon Nostalgia alluded, in one of her posts above, that perhaps some of the victims of Keith's drunken rages (Kim? Mandy? Dougal? etc) *asked* for it... Dragon said this: "I hate how ppl always assume he was the only guilty one, I mean, who are we to assume any innocent victims of his drunken rages had instigated at times, & are hiding it, or didn't confront his problems properly. There is a difference between ranting at him & patiently attempting to get through to him." NO ONE deserves that s**t. And you wanna know why they were ranting at him? Probably because YEARS of patiently attempting to get through to him DIDN'T f***ng WORK!!!! Listen to/read some interviews with Kim to see what kind of "paradise" life with Keith was... Again, I'm a HUGE fan of Keith Moon the drummer and personality within the Who...not so much a big fan of Keith Moon the person. Same goes for others like Lennon, Jagger, Richards, Bonham...
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Post by moonlegend on Jun 10, 2009 15:00:57 GMT
I find it curious you say he *lived* more than most of us...by this you allude to his vast consumption of drugs, booze, women, etc? quote] No..by that I allude to him being probably the most talented drummer ever..being in the greatest rock band of all time..performing in some of the most awesome gigs the world has ever seen..being funnier than the whole of the monty python crew put together! Well *that* I can agree with! Thanks for clarifying... I do take issue to the fact that Dragon Nostalgia alluded, in one of her posts above, that perhaps some of the victims of Keith's drunken rages (Kim? Mandy? Dougal? etc) *asked* for it... Dragon said this: "I hate how ppl always assume he was the only guilty one, I mean, who are we to assume any innocent victims of his drunken rages had instigated at times, & are hiding it, or didn't confront his problems properly. There is a difference between ranting at him & patiently attempting to get through to him." NO ONE deserves that rubbish. And you wanna know why they were ranting at him? Probably because YEARS of patiently attempting to get through to him DIDN'T flipping WORK!!!! Listen to/read some interviews with Kim to see what kind of "paradise" life with Keith was... Again, I'm a HUGE fan of Keith Moon the drummer and personality within the Who...not so much a big fan of Keith Moon the person. Same goes for others like Lennon, Jagger, Richards, Bonham... We've agreed on something!! :-) and am glad to hear you’re a huge Moonie fan (well of Moonie the drummer and band member) :-) I don’t think Dragon meant that they asked for it I just think she meant that there is always 2 sides to the coin and we rarely hear about the other side. And ive read every available source on Keith Moon
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Dragon Nostalgia
Loves that CSI tune
Syd's Floydian Whophoria In The Teenage Wasteland
Posts: 69
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Post by Dragon Nostalgia on Jun 11, 2009 1:30:21 GMT
LOL, you half-trolls just don't know when to quit, do you? I take it you wish Keith was a boring, emotionless, mildly talented, moderately passionate, musical elitist? So he'd be the David Gilmour of the drums rather than the Jimi Hendrix of the drums? You're patting yourself on the back for not "ending up like that", sure makes me wonder what you did in the past that your attempting to make up for, by bullying the fans of a man who made mistakes, & because you are too narrow minded to understand the eccentric. Attempting make something positive of yourself by demonizing another person for their faults as a fellow human is not only ignorant & stereotypical, but its also arrogant & immature. I get a thrill out of his presona,talent, & antics not his mistakes & misadventures. I have the guts to pull a few Keith moves here & there, but obviously not the ones involving his mistakes & misadventures. Yeah, & I bet you also think all Syd Barrett is, is a psychopathic acid casualty........Pathetic I like how you barely ever post here yet call us regulars trolls...nice... I don't have any problem with how Keith lived...it was his choice and he paid the price (as did his family and friends)...to each his own... I thoroughly enjoy his drumming, his personality within the Who, his image with The Who, etc. Sorry to hear you value antics over musicianship...you must think Gilmour, Clapton, McCartney, Windood, etc to be talentless hacks since they just get up there and play, eh? Not "compensating" for anything by "bashing" Keith for his errors and missteps...but the blind adulation and acceptance of all things Keith gets old. I can tell, as you said, you probably indulged in some Keith-like behavior (as you claimed)...it comes through loud and clear! On the contrary, I think Keith is the greatest drummer, considering that I said"talent", in with what I listed, & I know superb musicianship when I see it/hear it. Deny it all you want, but I do respect ppl's opinions. Since you don't know me, you technically have no place in making such an assumption. Your post wasn't a constructive opinion, it was a pointless flame post that could be easily considered baiting, since you bashed Keith in a Keith themed thread. That, is trollish. I don't blindly agree with everything Keith does, since Im no fanboy, I can't stand them, & I loathe negativlely assumed judgement,discrimination & stereotyping of any kind. The amount of time one is present in the forum is irrelevant, nice try. Any person new or regular for years can log in & start sh*t, flaming & trolling. Nobody deserves that rubbish? Do you believe everything you hear? Do you honestly think that Kim is going to admit that she, amoung others, was at least slightly at fault & Keith's emotional & addiction problems were merely the catalyst? Get real, seriously, its fanboyish to blindly & naively absorb info like a sponge, without questioning what was being viewed through Keith's eyes. Anyone who assumes there relationship was a Romeo & Juliet, aside from the loose facts about the negatives, is a delusional romanticizing psycho-fan. Kim wasn't 100% innocent, just like Keith wasn't 100% guilty. The Who,his desire for love, & loving to be the comedian, living his life to the fullest,was more important to him that anything. I have little desire to pay any mind to any of her interviews, since she is always treated like an abused & abandoned child, who has no fault whatsoever. Gee, I wonder where ppl/biographers get those ideas from? He may have had a dark side, but at least, altered state of drunkeness aside, he was being himself. Better to have some kind of 2 personas than be a sheep-minded robot. We all screw up & stigmatizing a man because of his mistakes is hypocritical, because he was human just like all of us. Ex. Its not like he overdosed, survived, overdosed again, & dies--implying he never learned from his mishaps. He obviously did, because he planned on sobering up, remember? Sugnificantly less was known about addiction at the time, I know, but the rehap ppl telling him he was unsalvagable was just another blow to his already emotions in shambles. He was a meteorite & burn bright & breif. That doesn't make him any less of a legend. Keith never wasted his talent.
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Post by garethox on Jun 11, 2009 6:13:11 GMT
I like how you barely ever post here yet call us regulars trolls...nice... I don't have any problem with how Keith lived...it was his choice and he paid the price (as did his family and friends)...to each his own... I thoroughly enjoy his drumming, his personality within the Who, his image with The Who, etc. Sorry to hear you value antics over musicianship...you must think Gilmour, Clapton, McCartney, Windood, etc to be talentless hacks since they just get up there and play, eh? Not "compensating" for anything by "bashing" Keith for his errors and missteps...but the blind adulation and acceptance of all things Keith gets old. I can tell, as you said, you probably indulged in some Keith-like behavior (as you claimed)...it comes through loud and clear! On the contrary, I think Keith is the greatest drummer, considering that I said"talent", in with what I listed, & I know superb musicianship when I see it/hear it. Deny it all you want, but I do respect ppl's opinions. Since you don't know me, you technically have no place in making such an assumption. Your post wasn't a constructive opinion, it was a pointless flame post that could be easily considered baiting, since you bashed Keith in a Keith themed thread. That, is trollish. I don't blindly agree with everything Keith does, since Im no fanboy, I can't stand them, & I loathe negativlely assumed judgement,discrimination & stereotyping of any kind. The amount of time one is present in the forum is irrelevant, nice try. Any person new or regular for years can log in & start sh*t, flaming & trolling. Nobody deserves that rubbish? Do you believe everything you hear? Do you honestly think that Kim is going to admit that she, amoung others, was at least slightly at fault & Keith's emotional & addiction problems were merely the catalyst? Get real, seriously, its fanboyish to blindly & naively absorb info like a sponge, without questioning what was being viewed through Keith's eyes. Anyone who assumes there relationship was a Romeo & Juliet, aside from the loose facts about the negatives, is a delusional romanticizing psycho-fan. Kim wasn't 100% innocent, just like Keith wasn't 100% guilty. The Who,his desire for love, & loving to be the comedian, living his life to the fullest,was more important to him that anything. I have little desire to pay any mind to any of her interviews, since she is always treated like an abused & abandoned child, who has no fault whatsoever. Gee, I wonder where ppl/biographers get those ideas from? He may have had a dark side, but at least, altered state of drunkeness aside, he was being himself. Better to have some kind of 2 personas than be a sheep-minded robot. We all screw up & stigmatizing a man because of his mistakes is hypocritical, because he was human just like all of us. Ex. Its not like he overdosed, survived, overdosed again, & dies--implying he never learned from his mishaps. He obviously did, because he planned on sobering up, remember? Sugnificantly less was known about addiction at the time, I know, but the rehap ppl telling him he was unsalvagable was just another blow to his already emotions in shambles. He was a meteorite & burn bright & breif. That doesn't make him any less of a legend. Keith never wasted his talent. I just wondered - did you know Keith and Kim personally? (That's a rhetorical question!) Only if you didn't, your point of ppl not making assumptions about you when they don't know you is quite contradictory; because you make assumptions about Keith and Kim throughout your post. Unless a person was in the room(s) with both Keith and Kim at the time, any discussion about their relationship is pure conjecture and a biographers opinion is just as valid as anyone else's. 'Keith didn't overdose, survive, overdose and then die'. He overdosed countless times! Cow Palace being just one example? He overdosed on the damn stage! John himself said 'We saved his life countless times by walking him round, but it just so happened that particular night we weren't there.' 'Keith never wasted his talent'. Have you read the accounts of the 'Who Are You' sessions? He couldn't play hardly and the band were going to sack him. He wasn't playing well live either, they had to overdub his drums on TKAA soundtrack because they were out. That, to me anyway, is a waste of talent. But the real waste is the tragedy of losing him so early..... Now you may not believe this but I'm sure everyone on this forum loves Keith and empathises with his demons and recognises his more than considerable talent....but to recount his failings as a man and his talent as a musician is not to be insulting to Keith or anyone else for that matter, it is merely a discussion/conversation about the man and what made Keith 'Keith'.
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Dragon Nostalgia
Loves that CSI tune
Syd's Floydian Whophoria In The Teenage Wasteland
Posts: 69
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Post by Dragon Nostalgia on Jun 11, 2009 8:31:25 GMT
Appears we have another pesimist in the audience, everyone........ Uummmm.......Those were horse(or gorilla, I can't remember) tranquilizers, dude, he took a load of tham, but since its enough to bring down a large animal, a human is no match for a heavy dose, or light, nice try. Stop splitting hairs, when it comes to drugs it really doesn't take much to f*ck yourself up enough to a dangerous level, or at least when looking at the big picture,most of these musicains are just lucky. Im not making assumptions, I form my own hypothesis through completely reputable sources, & I feel I've located subtle inconsistancies in things, & I sure hope I don't find a lot of them in Dear Boy. I know a biographer's opinion is as valid as anyone's, & of course there is a lot of conjecture & hypothesizing, on our end, that is the situation with ANY biography. I have my constructive opinions about that entire story, but I do not know if I should clog up this thread with it. I may just begin a new thread. Im well aware of the Who Are You sessions, & Im well aware of the problems involved with his drumming at that time. I know about the overdubbing. The man was burnt out & had let himself go, & his bandmates were well aware of that. I can tell you now that ousting him would have been their biggest mistake, & the band would have died then, just as they died when he died.......Perhaps every event in the band's lives & history was simply meant to be. He just needed to get back on track, & apparently they were growing impatient. They aren't completely to blame, when your making an album, you get rushed at times, because theres a deadline. You don't have to be in a band to know that. His bandmates had the least to do with his problems as others did , including himself, & his addiction & alcoholism was merely the catalyst. Im only angered at flaming & stereotypical ranting about Keith's demons, not healthy & constructive debate about the subject. If only we could see his life & times through HIS eyes.........
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Post by garethox on Jun 11, 2009 9:24:12 GMT
Appears we have another pesimist in the audience, everyone........ Uummmm.......Those were horse(or gorilla, I can't remember) tranquilizers, dude, he took a load of tham, but since its enough to bring down a large animal, a human is no match for a heavy dose, or light, nice try. Stop splitting hairs, when it comes to drugs it really doesn't take much to f*ck yourself up enough to a dangerous level, or at least when looking at the big picture,most of these musicains are just lucky. Im not making assumptions, I form my own hypothesis through completely reputable sources, & I feel I've located subtle inconsistancies in things, & I sure hope I don't find a lot of them in Dear Boy. I know a biographer's opinion is as valid as anyone's, & of course there is a lot of conjecture & hypothesizing, on our end, that is the situation with ANY biography. I have my constructive opinions about that entire story, but I do not know if I should clog up this thread with it. I may just begin a new thread. Im well aware of the Who Are You sessions, & Im well aware of the problems involved with his drumming at that time. I know about the overdubbing. The man was burnt out & had let himself go, & his bandmates were well aware of that. I can tell you now that ousting him would have been their biggest mistake, & the band would have died then, just as they died when he died.......Perhaps every event in the band's lives & history was simply meant to be. He just needed to get back on track, & apparently they were growing impatient. They aren't completely to blame, when your making an album, you get rushed at times, because theres a deadline. You don't have to be in a band to know that. His bandmates had the least to do with his problems as others did , including himself, & his addiction & alcoholism was merely the catalyst. Im only angered at flaming & stereotypical ranting about Keith's demons, not healthy & constructive debate about the subject. If only we could see his life & times through HIS eyes......... Pointing out the contradictions and disagreeing with certain points in your post doesn't make me or anyone else a pessimist nor any other name or label you care to attach; it makes us free minded people who happen to have our own opinions. The Cow Palace incident was but one time I indicated to illustrate that Keith had indeed overdosed before the fateful one - remember, you said he hadn't. The type of drug is irrelevant. Surely you concur that an overdose is an overdose? And I think John Entwistle was actually there through much of Keith's life, so I believe the statement he made regarding them having saved Keith many times - that isn't hypothesis nor assumption it is plain fact. P.S They were horse tranquilizers. P.P.S Are you on some kind of mission to alienate as many people as you can in the shortest amount of time?
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Post by boristhearachnid on Jun 11, 2009 9:41:12 GMT
By the term "everyone" you mean those in agreement with you and not everyone else on the forum? It's nice for you that you are supporting Keith in such a strong way but it is all in your own opinion (as is the case with everyone elses opinion on here). IMO - Keith was Keith as a drummer (best Keith Moon style drummer ever and the best drummer for The Who as a band) but he certainly wasn't the worlds best drummer ever and that's something you'll recognise if you know your 4/4's. As far as his personal demons go,as a child he would probably have been diagnosed as ADHD for sure now (centre of attention,comments on school reports etc.) and (personal opinion) was probably very intelligent and had his intelligence been channeled properly (as would happen nowadays) would have been all arty farty too! However,as fond as I am of the Keith that I know (which is like most of us based on what we see and read,from which we form our own opinions on) I really wouldn't like to have been in his company for too long as someone who feels the need to be entertaining all the time can wear thin very soon and it is draining on them (leading to depression>drinking>depression.... you get the picture!). Keeping on topic,here is an article from allaboutjazz.com and although it is up itself in parts (as are a lot of jazzers!) it does show an appreciation crossing the boundries - www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=28193
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